On Implementation

It happens that More Right posted on Ingredients Needed for Reaction to Work a few days ago.

Developing the theme of this blog a bit more: If we desire to actually live under a regime more congenial to our NR nature than the USG (or God help you, the EU) we need a practical vision for implementation; while Anissimov outlines a very realistic structure (similar to the way the Founding Fathers ran it), I note he doesn’t take the next step of pointing out the schwerpunkt.

I see these options, either currently available or becoming available during the historical/technological developments of the next 10-20 years: 1) Taking over the machinery of an existing nation-state; 2) Taking over the machinery of an existing U.S. state (something like the Free Sate Project); 3) Seasteading/Spacesteading 4) The NR as a world-distributed phyle a la The Diamond Age; 5) A city-state in America 3.0.

I will develop each of these in a separate post. For the moment, 4) and 5), or a combination of the two, seem the most practical. But I am interested in reasoned commentary on 1), 2) and 3) as well.

Advertisements

16 thoughts on “On Implementation

  1. “1) Taking over the machinery of an existing nation-state”

    I don’t see how this can be done, at least, not without A.) needing more people than we have; B.) costing more money than we have; and C.) bringing on UN or US intervention to “restore democracy.”

    “2) Taking over the machinery of an existing U.S. state”

    See point A) under (1). Recall the utter failure of the Free State Project. We don’t have enough people to take over a state. Especially when you consider the effects of the poor job market on mobility; you aren’t likely to move somewhere else if you can’t find a job there. Plus, you still have the Federal government and all it’s constraints, so any “Free State” won’t be able to change much except at the margins.

    “3) Seasteading/Spacesteading”

    Seasteading is a pipe-dream. First, they’d be massive money-sinks; there’s no way for a seastead to pay it’s expenses. Secondly, the sort of people who’d go to a seastead are the sort who’d chafe under the necessary restrictions and sardine-can conditions, and would likely head back home in short order. Third, a seastead couldn’t do much, policy-wise, to rock to boat, lest they get the US Navy sent their way.

    Space is even worse. Space is for robots, not fragile meat. The technologies not only aren’t there yet, they won’t be there soon (or, IMO, ever). We are in a gravity well whose depth ensures that the costs of launching matter into space will remain high enough that human colonization of space will be too expensive for anything but the largest of nation-states. And a space colony would be an even bigger money sink than a seastead. And how long would one last if Earth stops the shipments of air/water/food needed by the colony?

    “4) The NR as a world-distributed phyle a la The Diamond Age”

    I always found that part of Diamond Age particularly unbelievable, even in their post-scarcity conditions. For the world we live in, I don’t see how it works. No matter how much time you spend online, you still live in meatspace, subject to the laws, taxes, and authorities of wherever you reside.
    “Internal secession” is no sort of secession at all, in the ling run.

    “5) A city-state in America 3.0.”

    That whole “America 3.0” article was loaded with wishful thinking and absurdities. “[T]he creation of an open and accountable process to unwind current government obligations at all levels, with protection to the extent possible for older Americans who have relied on government promises” is ridiculous, as is the idea of a “peace treaty” in the culture war.

    Like

    • Stimulating knockdown of 1-5…but I would like to hear a 6), if you have one.

      The Phyles exist in an anarchocapitalist world where USG, and presumably all national governments, are considerably weaker.

      As I wrote in my latest, I plan to address these in more detail.

      Like

      • @neovictorian23

        ” I would like to hear a 6), if you have one.”

        I don’t have one, and am increasingly certain there isn’t one; that there is nothing we can do. The Cathedral will continue, only growing ever worse, and consuming every bit of civilizational capital they can, until a final, catastrophic collapse that, at best means the irreversible end of industrial civilization and a permanent return to pre-industrial technology and conditions, and at worst will render our species extinct.

        “The Phyles exist in an anarchocapitalist world where USG, and presumably all national governments, are considerably weaker.”

        This world will not happen, as USG won’t be “conconsiderably weaker” enough until the aforementioned permanent collapse has already passed the point of no return.

        @soapjackal

        I read that as a kid. I was big on space growing up. I attended talks and meetings by the Mars Society at Caltech while getting my BS in Physics. I had an internship at NASA JPL in the early 2000. I’m aware of all of that, and that’s why I know it won’t happen. It’s not just the technology, it’s the economics and accounting: “how much would all this cost?”, “who’s going to pay for it?” and “what returns can they expect on their investment”, the answers being “too much”, “no-one”, and “not enough to justify it.”

        And as for fraternal societies, read Putnam.

        Like

  2. Seasteading is not a pipe dream, but it’s a costly niche technology, suitable for special purposes.

    Taking over an existing nation-state might be easier than you think. The trick is that the nation-state is not the real center of power. Fanatical adherence to some tribe is the key to reactionary power. A nation-state is just a tool.

    Suppose I were to point out a hyper-religious community that was politically to the right of Oswald Mosley. Suppose they allow immigration only for sincere converts. You would be able to live in a right-wing tribe, but of course you would have to conform.

    There are many such tribes on Earth right now. It’s just a question of picking the tribe you like. If you want to be a fanatical Jew, for example, conversion is possible (but not as easy as some might like). If you want to be a fanatical Mormon, conversion is easy, but staying in and living up to the standards is a bit more difficult. If you want to be a fanatical Muslim, there are any number of mosques that would compete to convert you.

    If a few neoreactionary geniuses could convert to some suitable right-wing tribe, they could enlighten that tribe with neoreactionary insight. The tribe could rise to dominance within its region, as tribes often do. Neoreaction could then rule, in the form of a neoreactionary tribe. Of course, there’s no guarantee that the tribe would be smart enough to stay recognizably “neoreactionary.”

    Suppose Mencius Moldbug became Chief Rabbi of Israel and tried to enlighten them with his flavor of neoreaction. While he lived, his students would make it difficult for him to exercise power while maintaining philosophical purity. After he died, his philosophy would be distorted and lost in power struggles, and the surviving Israel might be strong, but probably would not stay neoreactionary. So you can argue about whether Moldbug’s success in such a scenario constitutes truly “taking over” Israel for the cause of neoreaction.

    Like

    • “Seasteading is not a pipe dream, but it’s a costly niche technology, suitable for special purposes.”

      And what “special purposes” are those? I don’t dispute it’s technological feasiblity, but it’s social, economic, and legal/political viability. If a seastead were built, I expect the majority of would-be seasteaders, upon finding out what living crammed on an ocean platform is really like (rather than what their optimism bias conjures up in their heads), will abandon ship for greener pastures in a matter of months. And, again, there’s no way for a seastead to be economically self-sufficient without engaging in activity that will have the US Navy sending a SEAL team or cruise missile their way.

      “Suppose I were to point out a hyper-religious community that was politically to the right of Oswald Mosley.”

      And for secular/materialist rightists who aren’t good at faking piety? (If I was any good at convincingly professing something I don’t believe in, I’d likely be faking Progressivism for the personal material benefits.)

      “There are many such tribes on Earth right now. It’s just a question of picking the tribe you like.”

      In addition to the above, there’s the Groucho Marx principle: “I don’t want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member.” Secondly, all of these “tribes” exist at the sufference of the Cathedral, and I don’t expect that to last, especially if any of them start pursuing neoreactionary modes.

      Like

      • Re seasteading:
        >I don’t dispute it’s technological feasiblity, but it’s social, economic, and legal/political viability.

        In the 1960s, “pirate radio” ships were able to turn a profit by operating commercial radio entertainment stations on ships located off the shores of countries with restrictive laws.

        Seasteading is the next iteration of that business model. As for “legal” viability – well, the USA’s navy will probably shoot first and ask questions later, so the model is viable so long as it’s far enough from their supply lines to make punitive raids uneconomical.

        >I expect the majority of would-be seasteaders, upon finding out what living crammed on an ocean platform is really like (rather than what their optimism bias conjures up in their heads), will abandon ship for greener pastures in a matter of months.

        Certainly. And the majority of males who dream of being a “private military contractor” would never be able to hack it. Nonetheless, hired guns still have a viable business model in terms of material lucre – although the spiritual consequences of killing for hire might involve prolonged roasting where the fire is not quenched and the worm perisheth not.

        >And for secular/materialist rightists who aren’t good at faking piety? (If I was any good at convincingly professing something I don’t believe in, I’d likely be faking Progressivism for the personal material benefits.)

        I know that feel, bro. If you’re a secularist, Singapore might be willing to take you. If you’re a hard-working genius, Singapore or Hong Kong might make you rich and powerful.

        > Secondly, all of these “tribes” exist at the sufference of the Cathedral, and I don’t expect that to last, especially if any of them start pursuing neoreactionary modes.

        I hate to be too confident about the superiority of Asians to Westerners, but I must point out that the Western “Cathedral” survives on money from the People’s Republic of China. I don’t expect the “Cathedral” to last in its current form when the winds of economic destabilization start to blow. The Westerners will be able to persecute and prosecute many Western neoreactionaries. We might see Jim Donald dragged off in shackles to share a cell with Edgar J. Steele, for example. But the USA is not going to exercise similar levels of control over Singapore, the PRC, Turkey, etc.

        In general, if you can only speak English, you’re at a big disadvantage for finding a (neo)reactionary home. If you get outside the USA/UK/Five Eyes bubble, you start to see that the rest of the world never liked or trusted the Cathedral very much.

        Like

      • @zhai2nan2

        “Seasteading is the next iteration of that business model.”

        You still haven’t said how the seasteads will pay their bills. “Pirate Radio” isn’t it.

        “well, the USA’s navy will probably shoot first and ask questions later, so the model is viable so long as it’s far enough from their supply lines to make punitive raids uneconomical.”

        Nowhere on Earth is “far enough” if you don’t sufficiently toe the Progressive line. Remember, USG taxes its citizens living abroad, and the IRS defeated centuries of Swiss banking tradition in short order.

        “Nonetheless, hired guns still have a viable business model in terms of material lucre”

        Yes, PMC’s are a viable business model, but you still haven’t provided evidence that seasteading can produce one.

        “If you’re a secularist, Singapore might be willing to take you.”

        I doubt Singapore takes people with my health issues, nor people supported by SSI disability. Further, I’m too irascible, antisocial, and misanthropic to do well in a conformist, Confucian culture. Third, I have enough ancestry from the wrong side of the Hajnal line to be more clannish than the standard high-IQ Anglospheroid; I don’t do well, psychologically speaking, away from family.

        To quote from a comment I made on one of Nick Land’s posts:

        Human beings, at least healthy ones, are not isolated, atomized individuals, but part of an organic culture that shapes them in fundamental, and irreversable, ways. Consider all the statements of the form “you can take the X(individual) out of the Y(group), but you can’t take the Y out of the X.” To ‘exit’ these, to cut these ties and be cast adrift amongst strange peoples and their foreign ways, was once called “exile.”

        Exile was considered a terrible fate, a most condign punishment; for some, worse than death, as the example of Socrates illustrates. That so many of us no longer see exile as so intolerable only serves to illustrate how much Modernity has spiritually/psychologically damaged us, and how much we have internalized Enlightenment myths of “assimilation” (which, to the extent it occurs at all, is a process acting not on individuals, but on generations, and affecting the parent culture as well as the new arrivals).

        “I don’t expect the “Cathedral” to last in its current form when the winds of economic destabilization start to blow”

        I don’t expect it to maintain its current form either; I expect it to become more rapacious, more extractive, to grab everything it can at gunpoint (and USG has the most and biggest guns), and to consume ever greater quantities of civilizational seed-corn to keep itself and its troops funded, until there is not enough left to maintain civilization, and permanent collapse becomes certain. And then, like a child who breaks their toy rather than be forced to share it, on the principle “if I can’t have it, no one can”, I expect the nukes to start flying.

        Like

  3. Thanks for the stimulating discussion, gentlemen.

    Some general comments: The “Cathedral” is not a “thing,” it’s not a conspiracy, as such. It’s main components, Big Education and Big Media, are already being undermined to certain extent by the Web, as in Stephenson’s novels. The American university system was a bubble, as Glenn Reynolds has emphasized, and is going to downsize and lose influence over the next 1-15 years. MSNBABCBS have already lost well over 50% of their peek audiences, and the remainders skew oldster.

    The young (I’m not on of them, BTW) in America, the EU and China, Japan, and all the other countries with no/negative population growth, will not serve as wage slaves for Boomers, They just won’t. There will be a restructuring of debt and pension obligations (the “Big Haircut”) because reality demands it–or, as twistedone151 has it, major collapse. I’m betting on restructuring.

    Every Big Government in history (Rome, the European royal houses, etc.) looked invincible at some point, and every one underwent radical transformation or complete replacement. So it will go with USG and the ChiComms, too. The question is when. It might be after my lifetime, or maybe there really will be some “singularity” that causes the End of History As We Knew It.

    Right now, the evidence before my eyes is that USG can’t even enforce pot laws. Big transformations often bubble and brew below the surface and then explode in a short period of time. Society is a stochastic process, and no one can really predict the future long-term, but the one thing I am sure of is that my nine-year-old son and his cohort aren’t going sit on their asses while a bunch of aging Boomers cause a “final, catastrophic collapse” because they refuse to take a haircut on their “guaranteed” pensions.

    Like

  4. Pingback: Neoreaction in The Diamond Age

  5. Pingback: The real way to lose is to grow addicted to fear – and other thoughts from the manosphere – part 2 of 2 | vulture of critique

  6. Pingback: The Pause That Refreshes | Neoreaction in The Diamond Age

  7. Pingback: Possible NRx Territories: Alaska | Neoreaction in The Diamond Age

  8. Pingback: Review: “What is Neoreation?” | Neoreaction in The Diamond Age

  9. Pingback: Quo Vadis, Reaction? | Sanity in The Diamond Age

  10. Pingback: America 3.0, Richard Fernandez and Prophets Without Honor | Sanity in The Diamond Age

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s